Ep. 4: Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold

The Ballot Box Briefing is a weekly segment on Sirius XM’s The Briefing, that examines the issues and storylines at the heart of running an efficient and accurate election. Guests include election administrators, local, state, and federal officials, cybersecurity experts, legal analysts, and members of BPC’s Democracy Program.

The latest episode features a conversation with Colorado’s Democratic Secretary of State Jena Griswold just one day after the Supreme Court heard oral argument on whether former President Trump should be removed from her state’s general election ballot. She talked about the case, the Justice’s questions, and the potential impact of the decision. She also discussed election officials and how AI could affect the 2024 campaign. 

Edited Transcript

STEVE SCULLY (SS): 24 hours ago, the nine justices of the U.S. Supreme Court heard historic oral arguments. Secretary Griswold, give us a sense of the moment yesterday morning as it unfolded.

JENA GRISWOLD (JG): It was a significant day for democracy. The Supreme Court is steps from the United States Capitol, where in 2021, members of Congress were running for their lives and the Constitution came under attack. To see Donald Trump continue to lie about his role in the insurrection and argue that the Constitution does not apply to him was incredibly striking. I hope that the Supreme Court sees through his dangerous arguments and gives assurances to the American people that our laws apply equally to every person, and that states should be allowed to disqualify oath-breaking insurrectionists from our ballot.

SS: Secretary Griswold, you are a lawyer. A number of justices posed questions to the lawyers yesterday about defining what an “insurrection” is. What was your reaction to that?

JG: First, I do not think that we should read too much into the questions asked during oral arguments. The justices may be asking questions to help formulate their opinions; they also may be playing devil’s advocate. I do think the justices insinuating that it would be impossible to define what an insurrection is is unbelievably wrong. The United States Supreme Court absolutely can define what an insurrection is. I do think that the attorneys for the Colorado voters did a good job of saying that an insurrection is an extraordinary event. It’s not something that happens all the time. It happens very rarely, and the Supreme Court can define it in the law.

SS: Section 3 of the 14th Amendment describes members of Congress and “officers of the United States,” but does not include the President of the United States. Is the president an officer?

JG: In my opinion, and I think the opinion of many Americans, of course the president is an officer of the United States. Ultimately, we’ll see what the Supreme Court says.

I think it’s worth saying that we are only here because we’ve never had a president do what Donald Trump did. It’s as clear as day that Trump engaged in an insurrection, broke the law, and is responsible for the violent mob that stormed the Capitol. And remember, the insurrection was just part of his strategy. He should be held accountable for all of his illegal attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

SS: The other issue is the timeline in all of this. We do expect a quick decision by the US Supreme Court. Based on the stories coming out of the Supreme Court yesterday, it seems as if the justices will side with President Trump. We don’t know that for a fact, but if that is the case, what are the next steps?

JG: We hope that the justices issue an opinion very quickly. Ballots will go out to Colorado primary voters next week. Donald Trump is listed on the ballot, but voters need to know whether a vote for him will count or not. So we are waiting as the Supreme Court makes its decision, and we will review the opinion and go from there.

SS: I want to focus on artificial intelligence. We saw that robocall in the New Hampshire primary–it was a fake and linked to a firm in Texas. That call is an example of the first frontier, and it poses a lot of questions about AI and its role in elections in this country. What are your concerns?

JG: AI has the ability to supercharge the attacks we’ve been seeing on democracy, including cyber attacks on our election infrastructure and disinformation attacks. Deepfakes are especially dangerous because we can see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears something that we all think is real, but ultimately it’s not.

That’s why I’m leading a new law in Colorado that would regulate the use of AI in elections. It would require disclaimers on all deepfakes so that the person who is putting together that deepfake to try to trick Coloradans about candidates or elected officials would have to put a disclaimer on it saying that it was a deepfake. If they failed to do that, there would be civil enforcement through my office and the person affected could also bring a lawsuit.

SS: As you know, polling now indicates that a majority of Republicans still feel that the 2020 election was stolen. What more can be done to ensure that the American people have trust and faith in the electoral system?

JG: The number one thing that could be done is if Donald Trump and the MAGA extremists around him would stop lying. Then, Americans would have a lot more faith. 2020 was the most secure election in the nation’s history, but the far right has been spreading lies and conspiracies to undermine confidence and undermine the elections. The lies and the conspiracies are then used to justify voter suppression laws, incite insider threats and attacks to our election infrastructure, and as a basis for all the threats that election officials have been using. Ultimately, Donald Trump is one of the greatest dangers to American democracy. Last night, Congresswoman Elise Stefanik said that she would not have certified the 2020 election. She said on live TV that she would have helped steal the 2020 election from the American people. Her justification? Conspiracy.

SS: Threats are a real concern for election workers across the country. Many are civil servants, and in some cases, they are volunteers. Are you worried about the people who work at the polls not serving or volunteering for those positions anymore?

JG: I think we’ll have enough election workers in Colorado. In the middle of the pandemic, we were able to recruit 10,000 election workers. I think if we did that during the pandemic, we’ll be able to do that this election cycle.

But at the same time, I am deeply concerned about the threats of violence towards election officials. County clerks have been threatened, members of my office have been threatened, and I myself have received quite a lot of death threats over my job. I truly believe that an atmosphere of violence is an indication that our nation is in a concerning spot. Trump, when he doesn’t like someone, will do what he can to intimidate them, whether they’re judges or juries or election officials. We’ve seen the effect of the vitriol. In Colorado, 38% of elected county clerks–who are the local officials that oversee the elections–have stepped down since 2020. That’s what’s happening across the nation. The lies and intimidation are trying to push good election workers–Democrats and Republicans–out of their seats so that it’s easier to destabilize American elections.

SS: Going back inside the Supreme Court, what was your sense of the questions asked by the Justices and their overall performance on Thursday?

JG: This court has not been a friend to voting rights, to democracy, or fundamental freedom in this country. Ultimately, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment was written to protect the nation from insurrectionists, understanding that insurrectionists can destroy democracy from within if they are able to get into office again. I think it would set a very dangerous precedent if the Supreme Court does not apply this provision of the Constitution to the highest office in the nation, because no one should be above the Constitution or above the law. But we’ll see what they issue. The bigger picture, though, is that no matter how the Supreme Court rules, Americans have all the power to save democracy at the ballot box this year.