Ep. 13: Christopher Thomas, BPC Elections Project Fellow

The Ballot Box Briefing is a weekly segment on Sirius XM’s The Briefing, that examines the issues and storylines at the heart of running an efficient and accurate election. Guests include election administrators, local, state, and federal officials, cybersecurity experts, legal analysts, and members of BPC’s Democracy Program.

Episode 13. Christopher Thomas shared observations from his 40-year career running elections in Michigan, his work with the Presidential Commission on Election Administration, and how officials can prepare for lawsuits challenging vote counts.

Transcript

The following interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Steve Scully (SS): Every Friday at this time we take a much deeper dive into election issues, making sure that your vote is secure and safe and counted. One of the individuals helping us at the  Bipartisan Policy Center is Christopher Thomas. He is a fellow here at the BPC. Christopher, welcome to the program and let me begin with your own background, your own narrative, because you’ve been doing this for 40-plus years. When you started out in the 1970s, where were we then and where are we today in 2024?

Christopher Thomas (CT): Thank you, it’s a pleasure to be with you. And yes, I’ve had a long career in election administration. Back in the 70s when I joined the Secretary of State’s office, it was very difficult to even be in contact with all the election officials in Michigan. We have around 1,600 here, so about 1,500 are city and townships and the other hundred or so deal at the county level. In those days we were basically were using carbon paper for letters. That’s how we kept copies. We had a telephone that had four lines and when you hit the fourth line you got a busy signal. So like the rest of the country, we evolved into the connectivity that we have today, which allows very quick contact and the distribution of information to election officials across the state. And likewise allows data to come back to the Secretary of State on how elections are actually being run. So, elections basically are swept along with the same major changes in both the Internet and all the issues connected with that.

SS: And as you know, one of the biggest challenges, especially post-2020, the high turnover—we did a report, it’s available at bipartisanpolicy.org on that very point. What have you seen in Michigan and bottom line, just how big of a problem is it?

CT: Well, there’s always a turnover… our biggest turnovers are after presidential elections. Because we run elections at the city and Township level, and then the county clerks also gave a role. But not the same prominent role that they have in most of the other states. So in the presidential election, we elect all the Township clerks and we elect all the county clerks. There are some city clerks on it, but they generally are in the odd numbered year. So that’s our big turnover at that point. We have experienced similar increases in turnover that other states have across the country. And when you have a system that basically your job interview is being elected, that even imposes a tougher standard in order to recruit people to bring them into the system where they in fact have to seek election to gain the office.

SS: We’re talking to Christopher Thomas. He is a fellow with the Bipartisan Policy Center’s election project and a decade ago, you were appointed by President Barack Obama to serve on a White House Commission looking at election administrations across the country. What did you learn? What was your takeaway from your service during that one year panel?

CT: My takeaway was the incredible commitment of local election officials, both state and local, to running fair, open elections. We talked to election officials and advocacy groups across the country and we found many things that each state could do to improve their election system. President Obama made it clear that this was to make a better experience by our voters on Election Day and the time preceding Election Day. And I think we came up with a report that captured the commitment of all the players in this field from election officials to advocacy groups to legislators to make that happen. And I think the evidence is shown and some of the bipartisan policy reports did show how many of those recommendations have been widely accepted and put into play in all the states across the country.

SS: And yet there are concerns, especially in key states, Michigan among them. What worries you the most?

CT: Well. What worries me is really the loss of confidence in the election system that has occurred over the last eight years. There’s been a constant drumbeat denigrating the security of our system. And as we saw after the 2020 election, with the lawsuits that were filed, most of it is pretty bogus information. I served working for the city of Detroit in the 2020 election and in the post-election period completing affidavits for probably 7 or 8 different lawsuits, state and federal, where Detroit was being attacked in these lawsuits on election law procedures. It was so clear from this that the experts that were brought to the fore by the plaintiffs really didn’t understand how elections are run. They may have been experts in security and other areas, but they were totally ignorant in how elections are actually conducted. And so, their efforts and those that have followed have continued to degrade the confidence. And we hope to win that back. I think we took a good step in 2022 in terms of running a solid election with a minimal number of the denials that came after the results were in. Arizona, you know, had some with their close elections, but by and large the other states around the country—Michigan included—there were wide margins and really no litigation whatsoever after the election. So this will be a long process of winning that back. And 2024 becomes the next opportunity for election officials to perform on [a] central stage to demonstrate to the voters that we are all capable of presenting and conducting a fair election. That is our task and that’s what stands in front of us today.

SS: And every week on the ballot box briefing the one question I’m asking all of our guests and Christopher Thomas, thank you very much for being with us. You alluded to this when you refer to those career government employees who day in and day out do the job, the hard work of making sure that our elections are secure. But if there is one thing you wish people knew more, or understood better about elections. What would that be?

CT: Well, the one thing is the checks and balances this system is really steeped and checks and balances at each level of the process. And that’s what people I wish understood and that’s what has been so poorly represented in those that have been denigrating the system. These checks and balances, they’re complex. You wouldn’t expect the ordinary person to just know them. They’re probably not taught in any real civics classes, but they’re there, and anybody who works as a precinct inspector, an Election Day worker, they see that in action at that part of the election. They see the checks and balances. That are present and there are many more checks and balances behind that. So it is a secure system with time-tested checks and balances. And in fact, the increase in technology has enhanced those checks and balances.

SS: Christopher Thomas, thank you for the work you do at the Bipartisan Policy Center as a project fellow looking at election issues and election security. We thank you for joining us.

CT: You’re welcome, and it’s a pleasure to have been with you.