Social Security Claiming: Opportunities and Considerations
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Video Transcript
00;00;05;24 [Shai Akabas]: Good morning. I'm Shai Akabas, Director of Economic Policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center. Today, I'm excited to discuss an important retirement security issue that is too often overlooked. Social Security is the foundation of American's finances in retirement. A typical beneficiary age, 65 or older gets about half their income from social security and the size of that income stream primarily comes down to one decision. When are you going to claim your benefits? That decision really matters. If a worker claims before their full retirement age, they accept
00;00;38;01 permanently reduced monthly benefits. The earlier the claim, the steeper, the penalty in contrast a worker who waits the claim past their full retirement age earns higher monthly benefits. Specifically, if you wait until age 67, you'll get over 40% more per month than you would at age 62. And at age 70, over 75% more per month. And those higher benefit levels last for a lifetime. As an example if your benefit at age 62 would be a thousand dollars per
00;01;04;24 month, you can get more than $1,400 per month at age 67 or nearly $1,800 per month at age 70, the size of a worker's monthly benefit can also matter for the benefit of their surviving spouse with poverty rates among older widows, oftentimes exceeding 20% early claiming by husbands in particular contributes to that challenge. So with all of this as context, it's concerning that 62 remains the most common claiming age and that the significant majority continue to claim before their full retirement age.
00;01;35;02 Many of those people are not getting as much value out of the program as they could be at the Bipartisan Policy Center. We've been working on these retirement security issues for many years. The impetus for today's conversation is actually the 2016 report of BPC is Conrad Lockhart commission.
00;01;51;00 [Shai Akabas]: I'm biased as someone who's staffed their work, but their bipartisan agreement still stands out as a model for policy makers on both sides of the aisle, looking to address retirement security, their reports specifically highlighted social security, claiming as a critical piece of the retirement security puzzle. Last week, we released a paper at BPC on this topic, which you can find on our website. My coauthors on that paper are Jason Fichtner, Gary Koenig, both of whom you'll hear from in a moment and our research analysts, Nicko Gladstone. I want to give a special
00;02;21;24 shout out to Nicko who has done terrific work over the last six months on this report on a topic that's really quite complex. I also want to thank the experts who participated in our informal working group and provided critical input into the paper. Finally, I want to thank the Robert Wood Johnson foundation for supporting this important work for most older Americans, when to claim social security, maybe the most important financial decision they will make, and many are making that decision sub optimally, moreover COVID-19 and its economic fallout have given the
00;02;52;29 issue. A urgency, 3 million people aged 85 or older have lost their jobs since February as hiring slows and enhanced unemployment benefits have expired. Many of these people may consider claiming social security to replace their lost income with millions. Now facing a high stakes decision that will shape their financial security for the rest of their lives. We must help them choose wisely. Our paper finds in short that most people aren't provided with the
00;03;19;23 right timely information to help them make this critical decision. We're lucky to have a terrific panel here today to talk about why that is and how public policy can help during this moment of acute financial stress and beyond Chantel Boyens is a principal policy associate at the urban Institute. She was previously at the office of management and budget where she was the acting chief of the income maintenance branch. Jason Fichtner is a fellow here with us at the Bipartisan Policy Center.
00;03;46;29 [Shai Akabas]: He has held a variety of positions in government, most relevantly principal, deputy commissioner of the social security administration. I should note that he has been nominated to serve on the social security advisory board. I wish I could say he was recently nominated, but that wouldn't be true this week. Unfortunately marks two years since his initial nomination, which has been languishing. Gary Koenig has been working on social security issues for over 20 years with Congress's joint committee on taxation at the progressive policy Institute. And currently as the vice president of financial security at AARP is public
00;04;17;21 policy Institute. Last but not least, Sita Slavov is a professor of George Mason Universit’s Schar School of Public Policy and Government and a Visiting Scholar at the American enterprise Institute. She is a widely recognized expert on social security with her work appearing everywhere from leading economics journals to the New York times. She has also served on an expert panel advising the social security administration. I'm eager to hear from this illustrious group, and I'm sure you all are too. Before we start. I want to remind everyone that as, as
00;04;46;08 with other events at BPC, you can submit your questions for our panelists using the live chat function on YouTube, Facebook, or on Twitter with the #BPCLive. So with that, let me bring in the panel and Jason, I'll start it off with you. Um, I think we should begin by defining our concepts. We talk in the report about quote unquote optimal claiming can you share with everyone a little bit about what we mean by that?
00;05;12;09 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Definitely. First of all, hello everyone. Thank you for joining us. It's important. We start talking about the idea of concepts and what we mean by optimality because when you talk to financial planners, a lot of times when it comes to social security, they say, Oh, the best thing you should do is to claim social security early because you can get more monthly benefits for a longer period of time. And they look at this as a way of saying, you're going to get more money from the social security that may not be quote unquote optimal. So when we talk about optimality, it's trying to balance various tradeoffs that come with social security, the lifetime protection that the benefits never run out. And regardless of
00;05;44;07 how long you live the insurance and whether you need money today, or whether you have other resources that you can draw from. So we want to make sure, I mean, this concept of optimality, that we also talk about the idea of the claim decision and the concept of trying to balance off tradeoffs between longevity insurance, monthly income protection, and how long you may live in whether you need the money today or not. And also considering other things like your spouse, which you mentioned at the start shy is also important. So optimality is not just
00;06;11;06 trying to maximize the money you get from social security is trying to maximize the value. And it's also an individual decision and that becomes very important for this conversation.
00;06;21;11 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks Jason. It's really not all about the dollars and cents and Gary, maybe you could expand on that a little bit. What do you think are some of the factors that people should be thinking about when they decide when they make that decision about when to claim their benefits?
00;06;34;17 [Gary Koenig]: Hi, um, for, let me begin by first thanking the Bipartisan Policy Center for inviting me to participate on this panel and for also the opportunity to call off of the paper, when to claim social security, retirement benefits is one of the most important financial decisions older Americans will make because of its important for economic security. The second, probably only to when to stop working and because for most people, the decision is irrevocable. It's a onetime decision. Um, it probably deserves greater attention, particularly around the policies
00;07;04;27 around improving that decision. So respect to, um, the factors that people should consider when thinking about when to claim for me and for most people, it's driven by two primary factors. One is whether they need to make the money, whether they need the money in order to make ends meet and also how long they expect to live. Um, do they have a strong reason to believe they will not live a long life with respect to the first one and making ends meet? There are instances, and you mentioned this shy in terms of the current situation that we're at,
00;07;35;28 where people often may not have a choice about, um, needing the money. They may lose a job, um, through no fault of their own. There are also cases where they need to have, they have caregiving responsibilities or they're in a physical demanding job and they cannot continue working. Those cases. People need the money to make ends meet and therefore they should probably claim. Um, early part of that consideration though, is can they rely on
00;08;02;07 other resources in order to delay claiming social security benefits, as you mentioned, there's a big increase for each year that you delay and it really each month your benefit increases, um, substantially and that's for the, your life. Um, and so when thinking about these decisions and whether you need the money to make ends meet, so you should be thinking also about, is there other resources that you can rely on or to delay claim your social security benefits? Um, life expectancy. I mean, I may making sound easier
00;08;32;00 than it actually is because there's a lot of uncertainty around, um, people's wellbeing life, what the life expectancy of their spouses. So it is a complicated decision, but it's a critical one for people to make and consider.
00;08;49;12 [Shai Akabas]: Yeah, thanks Gary. I think it, it really is with highlighting all of these elements, showing how critical a decision is, but also a complex one. And Chantel, I think we really need to separate early claims from suboptimal claims because not all early claims are suboptimal and not all suboptimal claims are early. They're really two different questions here based on the factors that affect an individual and their family. And so can you share with us what are some good reasons why people might want to claim early?
00;09;20;06 [Chantel Boyens]: Yeah, I mean, as, as Gary and Jason kind of mentioned there, there are a lot of reasons why claiming early makes sense for, for folks. And, um, especially in this moment that we're living in with COVID-19 we see that, you know, um, there are often health reasons at play for why people need to need to claim early. And I think it's really important to recognize that there are disparities in health across the population. And so, uh, you know, we talk about gangs and longevity gains
00;09;51;13 in health, but those have not been enjoyed and shared, uh, by all workers in the same manner. And, uh, you know, this is, this is something that we need to recognize when we talk about individual solutions and about individual options for claiming, and the fact that, uh, some workers don't have the same choices or the same ability to make choices. And the, and, and that really, that is a legacy of the other thing we're grappling with, which is longstanding structural racism and its sort of
00;10;19;12 devastating impact on black workers, especially. And so, uh, you know, there are many reasons why claiming at 62 is the right decision or the only decision. Um, and in terms of health, there are some workers, you know, occupations are, you know, who holds what job is also not evenly, uh, sort of dispersed, right. Um, black workers are more likely to be in jobs that, uh, require more physical labor. And, uh, we see a lot of folks who just simply can't keep working in those jobs at 62 and some who even drop out of
00;10;51;07 the labor force before 62. Um, some of them are able to claim disability, but a large share aren't on any type of public assistance and that's really, um, concerning. And so I think as we start to talk about these individual options, that's also important to recognize that they need to be paired with other changes potentially in social security that can really strengthen the safety net for these other workers who are facing health and other occupational challenges, uh, that can't be addressed, um, by
00;11;18;20 individual-based solutions.
00;11;25;30 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Chantel and 62, as I mentioned at the top is the most frequent age at which people claim, and A significant majority of people are still claiming before their retirement, a full retirement age, even though we've seen the trends move a little bit later or over the past decade or so, do you want to elaborate on that a little bit in terms of what we're seeing on the trends and specifically what you think we might anticipate as some of the results stemming from COVID-19 and the impact that that's having on older Americans?
00;11;53;07 [Chantel Boyens]: Sure. Yeah. I mean, there's actually, there is good news to report here, right? When we look over the long term, which is that, uh, since the 1990s, uh, more people have been claiming it later ages, and this is based on data from the social security administration and, uh, the folks over at Boston college center for retirement research looked at, um, the share of people claiming, uh, retirement benefits by age. And, you know, this is consistent with also a pattern of, um, greater labor force
00;12;22;18 participation by older workers and higher average retirement ages. And so over the long term we've been in, we've been going in the right direction. Um, but I think, you know, it is a question about what's going to happen now and I've seen some, uh, some survey data that suggests that early retirements are already, uh, taking up in a significant way. Um, I think, um, it'd be great. I don't know if, uh, if Steve Goss is joining today, but it'd be great to hear how he sees some of these trends playing out, um, and, and how he sees those dynamics going. But it does look like, uh, there
00;12;55;09 is a substantial number of folks who may be facing health challenges maybe older and have lost a job and are thinking that the odds of going back in are not high. And so we're, we're at least seeing some preliminary data that says that.
00;13;12;16 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Chantel. And just for context, Steve Goss, the chief actor of the social security administration, who is the keeper of the keys on a lot of this data. Sita, I want to turn to you and follow up a little bit on the question. I asked Chantel. I know you did some research looking at some of these trends during and after the great recession about a decade ago. What do you think we can learn from that and expect to see are sort of in a similar vein to what I asked?
00;13;35;15 [Sita N. Slavov]: Yeah, sure. So, what we did was we looked at data from the health and retirement study, which interviews a nationally representative sample of older people every other year. And the survey asks people questions about their retirement expectations. So it asks questions like, what do you think the chances are? You'll be working at age 62 or age 65, or what age do you expect to retire? And we looked at how the responses to those questions changed depending on the stock market performance and
00;14;04;20 changes in the local unemployment rate that respondents had experienced between interviews. And what we found was that increased unemployment is associated with expectations of earlier retirement and worst stock market performance is associated with expectations of later retirement. So this fits the story that when your retirement accounts do poorly, You may adjust by working longer. But when unemployment is high, you may have to retire earlier. And during the great recession, these effects worked against each other. Now, if we apply that to the current situation,
00;14;36;22 the stock market has come back to its pre pandemic levels. So we wouldn't expect that to necessarily cause delayed retirement, however, unemployment remains high. So overall we might expect people to retire sooner. And in this particular situation, there's also an added health risk for older people who can't work from home, which might further push in the direction of earlier retirement. Now we didn't directly look at social security claiming, um, we looked at retirement, but research by others has shown
00;15;05;13 that early claiming did in fact increase during the great recession.
00;15;13;13 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks Sita. I also want to ask you about some other survey research that you did looking into why people make the decision to claim early. And I found that really interesting. Some of the, some of the decisions were clearly financially related that they needed the money now, but there were also a lot of other reasons given, and I was wondering if you could dive into those a little bit more and sort of comparing what we were talking about at the beginning of the discussion with, in the abstract, some quote unquote, good reasons why people might need to claim
00;15;40;07 early with what we're seeing when people are asked about that decision.
00;15;44;21 [Sita N. Slavov]: Yeah, sure. So, you know, academics spend a lot of time thinking about why people claim early. And so one thought that my coauthors and I had was why not just ask them? So, you know, I don't think our survey necessarily gives definitive answers, but it definitely gives us something to think about. So we designed a survey that was administered to a nationally representative sample of older people. And, um, what we did was we asked about, you know, what were your reasons for claiming early or claiming at full retirement age or, or delaying past full retirement age?
00;16;15;06 Um, and we offered a set of possible options. We also allowed people to add their own reasons. Um, the top reasons for claiming early included stopping work, um, and throughout the survey, something we noticed was there is this theme of a lot of people seem to associate stop claiming with stopping work.
00;16;35;15 [Sita N. Slavov]: Um, another key reason was needing the money. So, this could be people who wanted to stop working and didn't have other retirement assets to draw on, which would be a legitimate reason to claim early. Um, another reason that was expressed was health concerns that people didn't expect to live long enough to benefit from delay, um, which again, that's an individual calculation, um, that that people need to do. Um, another common reason was people were worried about benefit, cuts, um, cuts to social security benefits. Now I personally don't think this is
00;17;08;17 a significant risk for people nearing retirement because social security reform proposals generally don't cut the benefits of people nearing retirement. Um, so, you know, that's a concern that it was kind of interesting to hear and it might be worth addressing that concern in the messaging.
00;17;26;26 [Shai Akabas]: Yeah. Thanks Sita. I found that some of these reasons can be really helpful when we're thinking about policy solutions to help people make these decisions in a way that works best for their household. Jason, did you want to jump in there too?
00;17;39;18 [Jason J. Fichtner]: I want to make a clarifying point with Sita to actually mention a recent comment about want to highlight a little bit further. A lot of people think that when you stop working, that's when you should file for social security retirement benefits. So you sort of see these things as joint decisions. They're actually mutually exclusive. Uh, you can continue working and not claim social security benefits. You can claim benefits and stop working. You can stop working and not play as you have a variety of options you can do, but just because you decided to stop working does not mean you automatically have to play in social video,
00;18;09;03 retirement benefits or mutual it's. Those are decisions. And one of the things we talk about the paper when it comes to optimal decision making is some people may decide they want to retire early, like stop working early. They can still delay claiming up to age 70. So there's no point that they have to do it together. Similarly, someone can claim benefits early at age 62, but continue working. And I think it's important to make that distinction for people.
00;18;33;04 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Jason, I don't know if it was the same paper as Sita's or another one where they ask people why they claimed at their full retirement age and something close to half of people said, quote unquote, because it seemed natural. So I think that also shows that we're not necessarily getting people the information that they need about this decision in a way that really helps them sufficiently think about all of the considerations. Um, Jason wanted to come back to you. Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Go ahead.
00;19;00;04 [Gary Koenig]: So I was just going to, just to add to that discussion. I think this, uh, complaining when you claim social security benefits and when to stop working is something that, um, is an issue and we need to try to separate, but I think one thing to recognize is that if people do stop working and they're gonna delay claiming social security benefits, they need a way to bridge that gap. And so for many people who do not have adequate savings, they may not be able to bridge that gap. And even for those who do have some savings, they may be reluctant to actually
00;19;30;03 tap into those savings like social security benefits when in fact it would be in their best interest to do so.
00;19;38;05 [Shai Akabas]: Yeah. That's a great point, Gary. And I know we're going to come back to some of that in terms of thinking through how, how people can receive some assistance in terms of bridging that gap. And when we talk about some of the potential policy solutions, Chantel, do you want to jump in too?
00;19;50;24 [Chantel Boyens]: Yeah. And just mention something I think we'll talk about again later too, which is that, um, you know, when to claim also it doesn't just affect the individual worker, but can affect, uh, their spouse. And so we know that spousal benefits, survivor benefits are impacted when, uh, by when the primary worker retires, you can also have an impact on children's benefits of children's benefits are claimed, and these have really important effects for total family and lifetime benefits.
00;20;20;11 [Shai Akabas]: Great. Jason, when we're thinking about this issue and the context of the broader retirement security picture, can you give us a sense of how important this is and how big a difference it can make for people to make, you know, quote unquote, the right or the optimal decision relative to a decision that they make with less information that may hurt them financially?
00;20;43;05 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Yeah, definitely. It's a good point. Uh, one of the things that when I was at social ministration, we got rid of was that we were doing something at the field office called the breakeven analysis. And so if someone went into the field office and they were age 62, and they asked a claims representative, when should I take social security benefits? They might say, well, you're age 62. If you take them today, you're ahead for the next 14 years. And that made it sound like it was a gain for that. And then people were signing up then at 62, we never told them that if you live then past 76, you'll be behind for the rest of your life. And as you
00;21;12;20 mentioned, shia, opening remarks. This can be a significant amount just on the monthly benefit alone. I mean, we're talking about the difference between age 62 filing and 70 filing. It's about 76% difference. Uh, for someone who would get a thousand dollars at the, what we call the full retirement age, that's somewhere around $700, a little bit more at eight 62, claiming as little over 1300, 1400 when you get to age 70, but it's over a $500 monthly difference. That $500 makes a big difference. You start thinking about the costs you might have when you get older, whether it's
00;21;43;11 healthcare costs, uh, other additional expenses, whether you want to travel, that can go a long way for paying for long term care.
00;21;50;02 [Jason J. Fichtner]: So these are important considerations. Think about optimum, what the importance is of the claiming decision. Additionally, also in something Gary pointed out, depends on longevity. And you know, in general, I tell people is, you know, when you need the money, take it, uh, you can always go to social security tomorrow. You can go next week. You can go next year. Uh, when you need it, take it, but you should hold off until you do. If you know, you're not going to live long, you've got a terminal illness. There's no reason to wait unless you're thinking about the spousal benefit, but it's important to take all these considerations in because it really does make a big difference on your overall financial
00;22;19;08 security, especially to think about longevity. One more point, and I'll turn it over. The framing matters. When thinking about agents, if you ask people, well, you know, how long do you think you're going to live? A lot people might say, well, I expect to live to my mid-eighties. And then he would say, Oh, well, if you retire at 65, do you have enough money to pay for 20 years of retirement? And they look at you and they don't think about the idea of that gap between 65 and say, mid-eighties as being 20 years, we're still going to need income to support retirement. And that changes
00;22;46;07 the entire way we think about what you need for income and retirement.
00;22;52;12 [Shai Akabas]: Yeah, those are really important points. Jason, and I think your discussion about the breakeven analysis, where people are presented with the decision frame, the decision as if, When you're, when you're claiming at age 62, if you make it more than 20 years, then your decision to wait will pay off. And if not, you might as well claim then really gets at these behavioral economics questions and see that I wanted to follow up with you there a little bit more about the framing of these decisions. We sort of make the assumption as economist often that people are rational, and we'll make the best decision for their
00;23;22;30 circumstances. But in reality, we know that that's not always the case and that's where some of these questions come into play. What types of biases and informational gaps might be playing into people's claiming decisions, especially in the context of some of this information that they're getting from the outside.
00;23;39;21 [Sita N. Slavov]: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, the first one that I'll mention is this, this is what Jason had mentioned. Um, so, so claiming decisions are sensitive to the way the decision is framed. So, so one example of that is that when you show people a break, even analysis, it causes them to, to be more likely to claim earlier. Um, another example is how a retirement and claiming ages seem to cluster around whatever age is designated the full retirement age. Um, the other thing you mentioned is
00;24;08;23 informational gaps and it's possible that people just lack the necessary knowledge to make an informed, claiming decision. The stakes in for involved in the claiming decision have really become much higher over the past decade or two, before that it was less important when you claimed, um, that recent change has been driven mostly by the increased generosity of the delayed retirement credit, as well as persistently low interest rates.
00;24;30;06 [Sita N. Slavov]: So it's possible that it takes time for people's behavior to catch up with reality. In, in recent years, we have seen increased attention to the importance of the claiming decision. You know, organizations like ARP have been talking about it. So gradually the information is getting out there, but there is a matter of giving people the information that they need. Um, the other thing I'll mention is that people don't appear to value annuities as much as economic models would predict. Um, I personally hesitate to call that a mistake because it's
00;24;59;28 possible that our models just aren't capturing something about people's preferences, but regardless when you delay social security, the gains from delay are paid out as an annuity, and that could be causing people to value them less.
00;25;16;07 [Shai Akabas]: Great. Thanks to you that, and we're going to move into discussion about some of the solutions. I just want to quickly remind folks, we're already getting a few questions in, but if you could please submit any questions that you have for the panelists using the live chat function on YouTube, Facebook, or on Twitter using the #BPCLive. We're going to come back to some of those questions in a few minutes. So jumping into some of the solutions that we talk about in the paper, and I should note that these are just a menu of options that we discuss. And many of them we think deserve additional research to figure out how effective they
00;25;45;20 would be before they're implemented. But Chantel, I wanted to come to you first and talk a little bit about the benefits statement. This is something that used to mailed out to every worker in the country annually to give them a sense of what their social security benefits would be if they continued on, uh, their current trajectory and some other important points about the program. But more recently, social security has started only mailing those out to people age 60 and over, uh, at least partially due to budgetary constraints. And so if you could talk a little bit about the
00;26;15;24 importance of the benefits statement and why we think this could have an impact in terms of helping people make more informed, claiming decisions.
00;26;25;10 [Chantel Boyens]: Thanks, Shai. Yeah, I do think the benefit statement is important. Um, uh, you know, it is a regular way of communicating with, uh, future beneficiaries with workers today, young workers, workers, nearing retirement, um, to reach out and say, Hey, social security is here. It still is here. It's going to provide a substantial amount of resources, income in retirement. And it's important that you, um, you know, be aware
00;26;55;04 of what the benefits are available to you as the worker and to perhaps your spouse. And it really helps educate and reinforce, you know, workers ties to the program. And, uh, you know, when I worked with Jason on this issue, when I was at the white house office of management budget, where we did, uh, have to grapple with, um, the, you know, competing budgetary resources, which is, uh, one of the reasons why the statements have been mailed out
00;27;23;20 less because we have faced a lot of budget pressures, um, and social security administration is really large. Um, and, uh, just to keep up with inflation, for instance, we would be looking at, you know, increases of, you know, $300 million a year and mailing out benefit statements. You know, at the time I remember looking at numbers of around a hundred million and, you know, you can process a lot of claims, right, and get benefits to a lot of people, um, or you can send
00;27;53;06 these statements out and it becomes a series of really difficult tradeoffs that, um, policy makers have to face. But the benefit statement, you know, it's one of the reasons it's important is that while we've moved to more online services and social security has done this great, my social security statement online, and that's really important that they continue to do that. A lot of folks do not have access to that resource and are not going to go online and find out about their benefits or check their wage history. And that's something that the benefit statement can do. And it can reach a
00;28;22;09 lot of folks who aren't going to be reached through, um, through internet and through those other online platforms.
00;28;31;01 [Shai Akabas]: Absolutely. And, um, I think there is some research out there showing that when people receive the physical benefits statement, they actually are more likely to be in the workforce after that. And more likely to wait to claim benefits. Um, I don't know if that was, if they, that was what they reported in terms of what their intentions were or if those were actual, but there is some research showing that the benefits statement has an impact. And when we think about the budgetary question, I think if we look at it on an individual level of 20 to $30 total to mail these statements out to people,
00;29;05;19 a person over the course of their life, and it can reap such huge rewards in terms of better retirement, better claim, excuse me, better claiming decisions that makes the tradeoff. Look a little bit more attractive than just the annual overall cost to the agency. Does anyone else want to weigh in here on the social security statement before we jump on to another topic?
00;29;29;20 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Oh, sorry. I'll, I'll just add quickly that it is a very important tool for people to help understand their benefits and how social security works. Uh, it also is a good reminder and people get it that social security is not just the retirement program. It's also a disability program, which a lot of people don't consider. And so, the statement is one, The main tools that the agency has As to reach out to citizens and explain to them the benefits and the program. So, I think it's very important that we support the social media statement and get it out to as many people as possible.
00;29;58;30 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Jason and Gary, I wanted to use that to turn to you. And Chantel mentioned in her comments that social security is admirably. The social security administration, I should say, has admirably been encouraging people to use their, my social security accounts. And this can be a really helpful resource to people. They've been putting more tools online to help think about this decision. And if you could talk a little bit about that and the impact that that can have on people and perhaps other tools even offline that that could help people make this decision.
00;30;25;30 [Gary Koenig]: Happy to do that. One thing I do want to mention is that in the BPC paper, the ideas that we talk about, um, they're about making sure people have the information they need at the right time to make the best decision for them and their families. When it comes to when to claim social security benefits, nothing in the, in the BPC paper will limit people's ability to access the social security benefits when they need it. In terms of the resources that are online, um, provided by the social security administration. I think social security has done more to provide
00;30;58;12 better information to people around the decision for when functional security benefits. I think there's more that can be done. And so, one area where I would emphasize is this idea of social security, providing longevity insurance. That's not the term I would use when talking to consumers, but conceptually, the idea that you cannot outlive your social security benefits is a component that people should understand. And probably ideally through information and other tools, get a better
00;31;26;02 appreciation for, for the value of that. Um, if the people do have retirement savings, those can be tapped and those couldn't run out social security is an inflation protected, guaranteed benefit. I think there's an opportunity for this administration to actually emphasize that more as a component for social security.
00;31;43;14 [Gary Koenig]: The other piece that I would mention is there are cases where if you look at the social security administration and the information that they provide, there's some inconsistency in sort of the information that is given to consumers. Um, one example that I'll give is the idea that if you work longer, your social security benefits could increase. So as we know, social security benefits are based on your highest 35 years of earning their, the way the social security presents this information, though, it's not always clear that working longer has the potential to increase your social security benefit. And so I think that's
00;32;15;28 one area, for example, where there could be more consistency in the way the social security ministration talks about, um, social security benefits.
00;32;26;03 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Gary. Another way that people interact with the social security administration, beyond the statements and online resources is still in person visits. A lot of people go into offices to claim their benefits. Not right now during COVID, obviously the offices are basically closed except for some essential functions. Um, but pre COVID. And presumably when we get through to the other side of this, there will be people who still choose to use that and claim their benefits in person. I wanted to ask Chantel then maybe Jason, based on your experience at SSA,
00;32;59;08 what are some of the things that we can be thinking about as to how those visits can be improved and people can be given the full context before they perhaps rush into a decision to claim their benefits that as a lot of us have emphasized is often irrevocable and carries with them for the rest of their life.
00;33;19;01 [Chantel Boyens]: Yeah. So I think, you know, the point that Jason made and, and others about, um, really getting away from the framing around this breakeven calculation is an important first step because that sometimes happens when someone comes into a field office and wants to talk, says, you know, I'm, I'm thinking of claiming my retirement benefits. And, you know, often when folks come in, they are ready in that moment to make that decision. And most of them are, are there because they have already made the decision. Um, it's, uh, it's important to provide them with the
00;33;49;11 clearest information about the benefits and tradeoffs and, you know, while respecting the fact that there are these other factors that come into play and, you know, um, these are private decisions and there are many private considerations and individual workers really need to sort through them, but to really arm them with the best information. And, um, you know, and I think, you know, access to being able to come into a field office and talk to somebody in person is going to be really
00;34;18;29 important for some claimants. So we know that a lot of retirement, uh, applications are filed online and that's been a great trend and an absolute, um, you know, a real, a real success for social security administration and for beneficiaries, right? For a lot of folks, that's what they prefer. But, um, some folks really do need that person to person interaction in order to understand and evaluate these choices. And, uh, you know, I am a little concerned about, for instance, the impact of having
00;34;48;12 field offices close now during COVID obviously it's what has to be done, but it comes likely at a cost for some beneficiaries and applicants. And so really I think preserving the ability to come into the field office for some applicants is critically important, both to give them good information and to make sure that we keep as many avenues as open as possible for folks to access their benefits.
00;35;15;14 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks. Jason, did you want to jump in based on any experience that you've had at SSA, or if you don't have anything you want to add that's fine too.
00;35;23;22 [Jason J. Fichtner]: I would add one thing that's really important on top of what the Chantel has already said is that there's a need for consistency. And oftentimes you don't get consistency when you go to different field offices in different claims reps, and the agency does try to do this, but it's not always happening. Uh, when I was at social administration, we created a one-page double-sided pamphlet called when to start receiving retirement benefits. Um, not all the field offices would put them out there. Uh, it's a really short thing where if someone comes in for an appointment or it comes into considered a claiming social security, a Chantel says if they come in, they usually already made up their mind,
00;35;55;09 but it's very easy to hand them a one pager and say, please look this over while you're waiting for your appointment to start. It gives them something to consider and look at the different monthly benefit amounts. It talks about thinking about your health and your other financial assets and your spouse, and it gives them something to walk up. And when they sit down with a claims representative and say, Hey, I have some questions based on this pamphlet. You gave me that pamphlet should go to everybody before they make a decision on when to claim. And Chantel mentioned that the idea that black people are falling online, there's, you can have a little radio button, please click your first and read this, this
00;36;23;16 two pager. Um, we can have various props. And so, there's a lot more of the agency could do both online and in the field office to make sure people get consistent information when making this very important decision.
00;36;37;00 [Shai Akabas]: Sita, do you want to add in anything there from sort of the behavioral economics standpoint? I like one of the, you know, one of the ideas that Jason, Gary and I talked about and with the folks who worked with us on the round table as well, um, as in part of putting the paper together is this idea that you could sort of provide additional prompts or they're not barriers, but additional steps along the way that help people make sure that they're considering the full context before they jump into this decision. Something like pop up boxes that say, you know, click here, if you would like to get another, a hundred dollars on your monthly benefit
00;37;08;10 and hear about how you can do that before they claim. Can you talk a little bit about what some of these behavioral interventions can do to help people make better decisions?
00;37;17;01 [Sita N. Slavov]: Yeah. I think this is really key because as we've emphasized in this discussion delay is not necessarily the best Decision for everyone, but given that the stakes can be high, we just want to make sure people are putting thought into the decision and not just claiming automatically, for example, at full retirement age, because that's when they think they should claim or claiming automatically when they stop work. So something like a popup box or, or an extra form that, that somebody has to fill out, ensuring that they understand what's involved in
00;37;47;23 the decision can help slow down the decision making and ensure that that some thought goes into it.
00;37;58;28 [Shai Akabas]: I want to use that to transition into one of the questions we've been getting from the audience, and I'll try to weave these into the rest of our conversation. But one thing that has really bugged me is over the years is that social security uses the terminology early eligibility age to describe age 62. Um, I know this is something that others have written about. Also, it was in the BPC commission report, a recommendation to change those ages, Deb Whitman at AARP has been very vocal on this point. Um, but when you hear early eligibility age, you
00;38;28;20 think that you're eligible for something that perhaps other people aren't eligible for. It, you become specially, um, entitled to take this benefit at this age. And therefore it's sort of encouraging you to make that decision as opposed to giving people the information that this is a reduced benefit that they would be claiming for the rest of their life and changing that title to something like reduced benefit age or minimum benefit age or anything along those lines could have had an impact. And I was wondering if Sita or Jason, you want to talk, you know, whether it's that change in particular or just the terminology that we use for some of these terms. We
00;38;59;22 got that question in a, from the audience from Mary Liz Burns.
00;39;12;27 [Sita N. Slavov]: Sorry. Yeah. So I basically think the, uh, terminology around claiming agents is just inaccurate. Um, you know, we've got this age that's called the full retirement age. Um, so that's going to be between 65 and 67, depending on your birth year. And you might look at that terminology and think that's the year you're going to get your full benefit. Um, but really, it's in no sense, your full benefit because for a retired worker benefit, you can continue to gain from delay till age 70. Um, so we really need to think about changing these labels to convey
00;39;43;03 accurate information and, you know, maybe minimum benefit, age and maximum benefit age might be accurate. Um, and I think the other thing, and Jason mentioned this earlier, the other thing regarding terminology is to really break the link between retirement and claiming, cause these terms sometimes get used interchangeably and it could be leading people to assume that they should claim when they retire. But we know that's not necessarily optimal for some people, um, because it might be better to retire, tap into other retirement saving first, if you have that and then claim later. So we
00;40;13;23 really need to be careful say retirement
00;40;16;07 [Sita N. Slavov]: When we mean retirement and claiming when we mean claiming.
00;40;22;09 [Shai Akabas]: So, I couldn't agree more. Yeah.
00;40;25;12 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Yeah. So, it's either it took all the thunder. That was perfect. So, you know, thank you. Um, but I, but I'm going to, I'm going to double down because you did a great job and I'll just say, when you think about the full retirement age, people will think about like your glasses fall. So, my glass is full there's room for no more. So why should I delay any further? And they said, that's not right. Uh, also the early eligibility age, I think encourages people, induces them to claim earlier. And that's part of the suboptimality it's like you can get early entrance into a movie theater, you can get early entrance into our sports stadium. You can get early, early entrance into a buffet line. If you want to get
00;40;56;30 early entrance into your favorite restaurant, there's no concept of penalty. And the point is that there is a financial penalty in the form of a lower monthly benefit if you claim early. And so, we should just move to - Sita said these - minimum benefit, age and maximum benefit age, forget the holes full retirement. What does that even mean? If someone goes into social security and says, Hey, I've heard that 62 is my minimum benefit age and 70 is my maximum. What does that mean? Now you've started the conversation about all the points in between, and that
00;41;25;20 is one of the most, uh, efficient and costless things we could do. It doesn't require us to change the benefit formula or change the retirement age. It's just changing the terminology and how we talk to the public. You could have a huge impact on financial security for millions of Americans. That's definitely something we should change.
00;41;45;12 [Shai Akabas]: Great. I want to use this opportunity to stay stick with the terminology. And Gary, come back to you on a part of the social security system that is routinely mocked and criticized the retirement earnings test. Mocked might be a little bit harsh, but, but there, there are a lot of critics of the way that this is implemented and described. I think especially the terminology where retirement earnings test makes a lot of people think that this is a tax, that these are benefits being taken away from them that they'll never get back. Can you give people a little
00;42;16;01 bit of context as to what the retirement earnings test is? What some of the challenges with it are and what we might think about in terms of options moving forward?
00;42;25;17 [Gary Koenig]: Sure. Happy to unlike the previous discussion, which is changing the name of the early eligibility for retirement age, which is a no brainer to me, this is a little bit more complicated, but what we do know is the retirement earnings tense as a temporary withholding of social security benefits for earnings above a certain threshold. So, for example, in a year that someone in a year prior to reaching the four terminate social security will withhold $1 in social security benefits for every $2 earned of about $18,000. And the concept behind the retirement
00;42;58;06 earnings test is, uh, it's pretty straight forward in terms of, uh, social insurance, um, concept that is to receive retirement benefit, a person must have experienced it lost an income due to retirement. The problem is Shai, and this is what you, you alluded to is one, people don't know what the retirement earnings test is. And more importantly, they don't understand that it's actually a temporary withholding. So if you have, if you have
00;43;25;00 earnings above the threshold, some social security benefits are withheld. You start to receive those benefits back once you reach your full retirement age. Nobody I say nobody, most people do not understand that they see this as a pure tax.
00;43;38;03 [Gary Koenig]: So when you're thinking about, um, for every $2 earnings, $1 of social security is withheld. If you think that is a pure tax, that is a 50% marginal tax rate. And as you can imagine, it has repercussions for people's decision around how much to work, um, whether to earn above that, that threshold or whether to work at all. We research has demonstrated that in fact, it does affect people's decision to work and how much they work. And that's a big problem. If, if people are reacting to this rule because they don't understand it and the name itself doesn't help
00;44;11;23 anybody understand what it is, then that is a problem that I think we visited. The one question though, is what does it mean to revisit the retirement earnings test? Does it mean renaming it, so it conveys better information about what it actually is. Does it mean providing more information in terms of helping people understand the implications of the retirement test or does it mean repealing it altogether? When the
00;44;37;10 retirement earnings test for be appealed for people above the full retirement age? What we did see is that people claimed earlier. And so one concern with repealing the retirement earnings test is that people will, uh, for those who are below the full retirement age, is that people will claim benefits earlier, which is something that, um, is a concern,
00;45;01;02 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Gary. And it seems to me like the renaming or changing the terminology is, as you said, an obvious one. And then the question of whether we go further than that and abolish it, that seems to play back into several of these other policy options. And what else are we doing to help people make the right decision there? As you said, if we just eliminate the retirement earnings test, it could have that unintended consequences of getting more people to actually claim earlier, um, which may not be in their best interests. We got a question, sorry.
00;45;28;13 [Gary Koenig]: Yeah, I was just going to say that's a great point because if we went the route or repealing the retirement earnings test, you would want to build a lot of the other policies that are in the paper around it to make sure that people are making the best decision for themselves given their circumstances
00;45;45;10 [Shai Akabas]: Question from the audience that I think we covered a little bit in terms of the changing terminology. Cause I think it bleeds into that discussion, but we've got a question from Kelly asking when moving up the full retirement age to 70 or later be a simple fix to address a lot of these issues. I think that gets into some of the broader social security reform conversations, but does anyone want to weigh in as to whether increasing the full retirement age is as an appropriate way to get at this claiming decision challenge and what the other implications of that type of change would be?
00;46;14;17 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Oh, I'll okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Gary. Then I'll do second, but yeah, that sounds great.
00;46;21;28 [Gary Koenig]: So, so quickly, um, raising the full retirement age to 70, what you may see as people delay claiming, but the concern that I would have is for those who cannot delay claiming what that means is that their benefits, their monthly benefits would be reduced even further. So, um, I think it is taking a hatchet to, to address an issue that can be, um, addressed in other ways.
00;46;49;24 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Gary said that exactly right. Just to, just to put that in context, if today's full retirement, age is 66 and eight months and you'd get a thousand dollars moving the full retirement age to 70 means you'd have to wait to 70 to get that thousand dollars. So you don't get the delayed claiming credits. It also means that the monthly benefit 62 would be less where get, if you're supposed to get a thousand dollars at your full retirement age and you'd get 700 ish dollars today at age 62, that number would be even further decrease because social security benefits are supposed to be actually neutral on average. And so just raising the
00;47;20;19 retirement age will actually probably make things worse, not make things better.
00;47;25;11 [Chantel Boyens]: And just to jump in, I mean, there are also implications for workers who claim disability benefits and there, you know, what we see is that there have been proposals for social security reform to include an increase in the retirement age, but they do not adequately address what you do about disability benefits. And, uh, and, and, and there, there really need to be a lot of hard work to, to address that. And it gets to the same issues that Jason and Gary just discussed. And of course, um, as we mentioned before, gains in longevity have not been
00;47;56;17 equally shared. And, uh, you know, that, that raises a whole lot of other red flags and concerns that, uh, are not easily addressed.
00;48;07;18 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks, Chantel. I want to make two quick points. One is that it's important to note here that several of these policy proposals that we've already discussed and that we may get to in the last several minutes, here are ones that are actively being considered on Capitol Hill. So there is a bipartisan proposal right now, uh, Senators Wyden and Cassidy have put something out on the benefit statement, reinstating that for all workers like we were talking about earlier, uh, Congresswoman Walorski has a bill that deals with retirement earnings test. So these are elements that are on the table. Obviously social security is
00;48;39;20 any legislation. Social security is an uphill battle, but these are debates that are ongoing in Congress today. The other point I wanted to make is that in our paper, we sort of divided these reform proposals into two categories. One is more about the information, the framing around the decision, and then the other is actual policy reforms that would, would change something about the benefit structure. Uh, most of the first part of our solution conversation was in the former category, just in the last few minutes, we've transitioned a little bit
00;49;07;10 with the retirement earnings test, potentially changing that, or, uh, the retirement age that we were just talking about these fall, obviously more into the benefit adjustment category sticking on in that category. I wanted to ask Jason and Gary, um, to spend a minute on an idea that they've written about before that we mentioned in the paper as well. And it gets back to this idea of bridging the gap between when somebody may retire and when they wish to claim social security and helping them afford that an idea that they put out there as something called start accounts. And Jason,
00;49;38;01 I was gonna turn it over to you to see if you wanted to just explain to people what those are for a minute and how that could help this problem as well.
00;49;45;30 [Jason J. Fichtner]: Sure. I'll take a quick stab and let Gary go on this as well. Uh, one of the things that we've been trying to do is again, help to encourage delayed claiming so that people can get a higher monthly benefit and add in that longevity insurance. We also want to have a component that lets people have access to market wealth. Uh, so one of the things that social security start accounts, again, they start accounts or supplemental transition accounts for retirement. And the idea is that it would be a mandatory, additional payroll tax increase that would go into a pooled manage account. That's managed by social security, but it is an
00;50;16;03 individual account with your name on it. Uh, and it would grow like the market grows, whether it's put into some S&P 500, or whether it's put into some pool account that is actually adjusted like longevity accounts and lifecycle funds. But the idea is there would be wealth building for people, um, and their social security start accounts. And if somebody then decided they needed to claim social security benefits before their current full retirement age. So at 62 or 63, they would have to draw down from their start account first. So imagine someone had to start account with a balance in it, um, of 40 or
00;50;45;29 $50,000. And they went at age 62 and a claim they would get their age 62 benefit, but that dollar amount would be drawn down in their start account until depleted once it's depleted and say that got them to age 66, they would then get their social security benefit level. But now at age 66, so they would get a higher monthly benefit then for the rest of their life. So this is the way we're trying to put the private and public together. It doesn't require a change in the retirement age or anything else. It helps build wealth and it helps build financial security for retirement, and it
00;51;13;30 really helps low income people. Gary?
00;51;18;17 [Gary Koenig]: So, I would just add to that by saying, we know that the social security program is a great program. It protects against inflation risk market risk and longevity risk. And what we're trying to do for this proposal is to actually put more, in some sense on social security to serve that role, to play the role that it plays best in terms of economic security, as people get older. And the way we've done that is, as Jason said, is to have a mandatory add-on, um, account that funds the first
00;51;51;24 couple of years of your social security benefits. So you would get your distribution from the start account at the same level that you would get your social security benefits, but that allows you to push off and delay claiming social security so that you have a higher benefit for your life. And again, it helps to emphasize the key strength of social security program.
00;52;15;20 [Jason J. Fichtner]: And I would add because we just mentioned the early claiming, but if somebody had to start account and did not clean early, they waited to the full retirement age or later than they would have full access to that start account for either an additional monthly benefit, a lump sum, or they could keep it and pass it on to their heirs as they would in a normal asset in a state. So again, we try to be very sort of flexible and houses designed, but it is designed to encourage delayed claiming and also make sure it has the protections that social security currently has today, as Gary mentioned.
00;52;45;28 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks guys. Yeah, it's a really interesting idea. And hopefully it will be part of the social security discussions on Capitol Hill as they move forward. We got a question from the audience, um, from Emily asking, has the pandemic reveal broader structural flaws within the social security system that need to be addressed. And Chantel, I wanted to see if you wanted to wait on that because I think it relates back to some of the comments you were making earlier.
00;53;08;00 [Chantel Boyens]: You know, For me, what it underscores is that, uh, you know, there are some improvements that could be made to social security to, to shore up the safety net for a lot of workers. And one of those that I really think is a top priority is to improve the minimum benefit that is provided to workers. And this is a proposal that, um, you know, it's really interesting, it's, it's included by Democrats and Republicans in solvency proposals. This is
00;53;37;22 an area where there's a lot of agreement and where there's actually been a lot of policy learning done about how to, how to design a really effective minimum benefit in a way that's, that's efficient. And that would have a significant impact on poverty levels for, for retirees. And I think that, you know, with the COVID crisis with the other things that we're grappling with in this moment, it just, it really highlights the need to, um, to, to make some of those protections better. The current social security minimum
00;54;08;12 benefit doesn't really help anybody, uh, because of the way it's designed and because of changes over time, um, and, and, uh, changes in wages and, and the way that folks work. And so I think that, uh, that this is something that could go, could go a long way towards improving the program and addressing some of these, some of these inequities in the area where there's, there's actually a lot of consensus.
00;54;35;08 [Shai Akabas]: Great. We've got a question in from the audience from Eric asking, Can the decision about claiming be improved by helping people know more about their longevity. Beliefs about longevity seem to be very influenced by framing. Anyone want to jump in there?
00;54;49;21 [Jason J. Fichtner]: So I'll just jump in quickly and Sita as well. But one of the things I think that's very important is just some basic statistics. So, a one in three 65 and roles today will live to age 90 one in seven to age 95. The point is retirement may be a lot longer than you think. And just having some general statistics out there is important. And as Chantel mentioned earlier, these longevity's, aren't being shared equally across ethnic racial income groups. So it's important to have that conversation as well, but just having some information out there about
00;55;19;12 longevity and reminding people, if you live to age 90 or 95, and you're thinking about, or take living benefits or retiring at 65, you need to be able to fund 30 years of retirement. Do you have that? And that's for social security protection and longevity insurance comes into play.
00;55;37;03 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks. Sita, if you want to wait on that, or I also wanted to ask you about one final policy reform we have time to touch on, which is the idea of a lump sum. So as everybody, I think no social security right now works solely as a monthly benefit for the rest of your life. There are some ideas out there and we discuss them in the paper that you could give people a portion of their benefit in the form of a lump sum when they claim, if they do wait to claim until a later age, and there's a variety of, uh, approaches that this could take. It could be a small, a
00;56;09;03 smaller amount. It could be a larger amount. It could be waiting till, you know, any age. It could be waiting until the full retirement age. It could be optional for the mandatory, but we can talk a little bit more about this idea of transferring some of the benefits into a lump sum format and the tradeoffs that that could pose and potential benefits that that could have?
00;56;25;20 [Sita N. Slavov]: Yeah. And I think this is definitely something that's worth thinking about given that people don't seem to value annuities as much as economists think they should in, in their models. Um, the downside would obviously be, they wouldn't get that longevity insurance, um, from the gains from delay. Um, but you know, some people might value having, having their gains from delay as a lump sum. And I actually did some recent work on a similar reform, um, in the UK. So in 2005, uh, the UK increased the generosity of the gains from delaying state pensions. And
00;56;57;28 they also started offering the option to receive the gains from delay as a lump sum and what my coauthors and I found was that that is possibly associated with some delays in claiming, um, and retirement, especially among men. Um, it's hard to say whether that was driven by the increased generosity of the adjustment or by the lump sum option. Um, overall, we find that there is, you know, a share of people who do seem to opt for the lump sum and that share of people goes up with the length of delay. So this
00;57;24;10 is clearly valuable to some people, um, you know, I'm not sure whether this is we should do this, but it's Definitely worth considering.
00;57;36;05 [Shai Akabas]: Thanks. Anyone else want to jump in on that?
00;57;41;10 [Gary Koenig]: I would just see this. A lot of the discussion that we've had today is now getting people to delay in order to get not longevity insurance. And so a proposal like that is something that would need to be considered and, um, research in order to establish that people are not worse off by getting that lump sum and then not having living too long, a long life and not having income to meet their needs.
00;58;10;01 [Shai Akabas]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I certainly think the variations of this proposal that might make, might be the most logical are those that just take a small portion of the benefit increase that you get from waiting to claim and applying it as a lump sum. So you still get that significantly increased benefit from delay. It's not replacing that, um, that trend. So I think that's all the time we have today. I really want to thank all of our panelists for their great wisdom that they shared here. Um, this is a critical topic that again, I think really is not getting enough attention.
00;58;39;17 We've been lucky enough to have, uh, four Senate offices that are really engaged with us on this issue and want to highlight this over the coming months and years. I think it's gotten all the more important due to COVID and the impact that that's having an older American worker. So, we're planning to continue work in this space, and we hope that many of you will continue to stay in touch with us on it. Thank you all again for tuning in today and have a good afternoon.
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Even before COVID-19, most people did not claim Social Security retirement benefits at optimal ages—mostly because they claimed too early. Now, with millions of older Americans out of work, many might think about claiming earlier, providing them access to cash now but jeopardizing their retirement security down the road. Faced with this high-stakes decision of when to claim benefits, it is more important than ever that people understand the consequences of their claiming age on their financial security.
Please join the Bipartisan Policy Center for an engaging discussion on why people claim Social Security suboptimally and how public policy can help—during this moment of acute financial stress and beyond.
Featured Participants
Chantel Boyens
Principal Policy Associate, Urban Institute
Jason J. Fichtner
Fellow, BPC; Former Principal Deputy Commissioner, Social Security Administration
Gary Koenig
Vice President, Financial Security, AARP Public Policy Institute
Sita N. Slavov
Professor, George Mason University Schar School of Policy and Government, Visiting Scholar, American Enterprise Institute
Moderated by:
Shai Akabas
Director of Economic Policy, BPC
In light of restrictions related to the COVID-19 pandemic, BPC events have shifted to all remote formats, such as video teleconferences or calls.
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